You'd have to ask Elaine Landry about the financial details of ALCOM. I thought, "Oh, he's switching between two bistable structures, something that others had not been able to do. Not that there wasn't other good research going on at Kent State, but Kent wasn't that visible as a university where technology is created. But that came a little later. I don't know who all sued who, but there was a preliminary hearing in Cleveland, and a number of attorneys from different places showed up to this thing. Town Center at Cobb October 13, 2010. DOANE: I think that may be one of my best contributions, actually.CRAWFORD: Could that be seen as pioneering? [Laughs] I was pretty much an only child. However, there were a couple people on the board of trustees at Kent State University at that time who were very helpful. He just wanted to make a wristwatch face. The things people tend to look down upon or push aside usually contain the opportunities. That had some issues, too. Were there lessons you took away from it?DOANE: The big lesson I learned about patenting was not so much from this patent as it was from operating on my own, later on, under the Bayh-Dole Act. Looking back on it, I'm not sure why he hired Fergason in the first place. You described the Society for Information Displays as an industry group when you first met with them. DOANE: Yes, I think that's [one major benefit]. Turns out, it was extremely important because later on, when we came to the ALCOM [Advanced Liquid Crystalline Optical Materials] Center, that was extremely valuable.CRAWFORD: Why was that?DOANE: At that time NSF started a new program for Science and Technology Centers, and it was a new direction for NSF. But it could've been that attitude of distancing research from industry caused the Institute to be in such a bad spot when I took over. They had this program, but they needed a proposal in just a few weeks. Anyway, that was my dissertation. As a university, we may have, at one time, been the largest contributor to talks and demonstrations at those Society conferences. [Laugh] That program was very helpful in building up our program and getting more involved in display research. First, I wanted to start spin-off companies. At that particular time, I was very fortunate because that was a time when universities all around the country were hiring scientists to build their programs because there was lots of money available through the National Science Foundation and various places for research, and universities were taking advantage of that. Where do you think that comes from for you?DOANE: I don't know. You have to be able to see how you fit in and how you can contribute. I'd known about this group for years. Akron contributed really nicely to the display technology because with polymers, they could make things like retardation films, and Akron really got involved. It really gives us a lot of insight.DOANE: It's kind of fun to go back and think through these things. The written line is erased electrically by simply pressing a button whereby the cholesteric liquid crystal is electrically switched from its color reflective state to its background state. Their backlighting technology was becoming cheaper and cheaper as was battery technology, and it was becoming harder to compete. I didn't come here because of liquid crystals, but right after I got here, I went into it, hook, line, and sinker. She came out on a train around 1915, I think. I was then able to convince the University to take an exclusive license for the technology for all applications. Up until then, I was doing basic research, studying liquid crystals at a molecular level, learning how they ordered themselves, how they fluctuate, how various molecular atomic groups fluctuate, and so on. And just after I got here, he had already invited Jim up for an interview. I was awarded it at Goodyear As an aside, I comment that following the award it turned out that Goodyear became interested in the technology because they thought it might look good on a blimp. 400 Ernest W Barrett Pkwy NW, Kennesaw, GA 30144-4917 Best nearby Restaurants 304 within 3 miles The Rotisserie Shop 230 0.3 mi$$ - $$$ American Vegetarian Friendly Vegan Options The Varsity Town Center 124 0.3 mi$ Quick Bites American Fast Food Red Lobster 105 0.2 mi$$ - $$$ American Seafood Vegetarian Friendly See all He got involved with a guy in the biology department to use liquid crystals to detect cancer. As soon as I met Sardari, I talked him into synthesizing a liquid crystal I could use with magnetic resonance. But I really had to spend most of my time obtaining funding for the Institute as a whole. Location! It required a liquid crystal, in scientific jargon, with a positive dielectric anisotropy. CRAWFORD: I know it may be difficult for you to speak to Dr. Brown's thought process, but why was it so important to have it off campus? That was my first inclination that I liked this kind of thing. They were not interested in any applied aspects. I appreciate you doing this. But anyway, Jim ran into materials issues. After Saupe had been at Kent for a while, he convinced that student to leave Hoffman-La Roche and come work with him at Kent. But, eventually, we were able to come up with a plan that convinced them to grant a license and we formed KDI. Everybody in the US lost on this issue. That was the main event that really told me where I wanted to go. John was marvelous at moving these materials forward. However, when I came in '65, they had already advanced that to a solid-state physics program and were in the process of moving it to a standard physics program for all areas of physics. Having witnessed this, at the time, or later when you reflected on it, what did you learn? In France, there was a large group at Orsay near Paris. The mall closed to customers Wednesday evening It is scheduled to reopen . We were able to get grants to help us with this. The only way I knew to do that was to do it myself. Objectif : Valoriser 10 000 tonnes de matires organiques agricoles par an et 100 m3/h de biomthane, soit l'quivalent de la consommation en gaz de 1000 foyers. I brought Peter in, and he was very helpful. The other texture is transparent. I did have a high school teacher, [Harley Rutledge], who was right out of college and had a degree in physics. They don't want to establish competitors [before they have the product on the market]. Is it the case that they had seen what the Japanese were doing with displays and came to the American scientific community asking them to develop something like that for them? Nowadays, we have software that keeps track of publications, and you can get a score based on the quantity you have. What kind of work were you planning on doing with NMR?DOANE: We started out on a number of different topics. Things like the Bayh-Dole Act got the state to start thinking differently. Another kind he was working on was called a guest host display, where you dissolve a dye material in a liquid crystal, the liquid crystal orders this dye material, and by changing the orientation of the liquid crystals with an electric field, you can change how colorful it is. It was a beautiful country. He thought it was a fascinating field. When we think about displays now, we think about computers and very dynamic displays. But he had two other positions he could fill. I then had a formal role in the Institute. It needed to focus its research. I'm an Associate Professor and Historian of Science in the Department of History at Kent State University. Of course, the military got into it very significantly later, and a lot of my success in running the Institute was supported by the military.CRAWFORD: Would you say that individuals in the Institute really saw these kinds of issues, like building a watch face, the work with temperature sensors, or other kinds ofbecause I think some of that military funding was exploring the utility of liquid crystals as different kinds of detectors and so forth. Town Center at Cobb is now one of more than 50 shopping malls in the U.S. owned by Kohan, which is based in Great Neck, New York. But the power drain was very low. CRAWFORD: Would you say your ability to win grants and contracts was a kind of expertise?DOANE: Yes, that was an expertise. I need a softball player." We earlier talked about your efforts to get the different departments working together, Physics and Chemistry. One texture reflects a beautiful colored light. While I was there, I ran into an old friend I had known years ago who lived across the hall from me in a dormitory at the University of Missouri when I was freshman. That was my interest. I'm not so sure that Glenn's attitude was really ever truly workable, except that it may have worked generally for universities back then. But the champion ended up being Japan. 1 hour from Salina. [Laugh] That was a huge effort, the first time I ever worked with other universities, and I learned the issues with that. But he did like the concept of working with liquid crystals in living systems, what their role was. You license a technology to some company, and right away, that company starts working on this technology, and they'll figure out better ways to do it and can patent around it. That happened in the late 70s, early 80s.CRAWFORD: Do you recall the name of that researcher from the University of Calabria?DOANE: Yes, his name was Giuseppe Chidichimo, but he called himself Pino. It's a much broader area of physics. Actually, I started KDI in 93 before I even retired. There was more of an awareness brought on, and I credit that to a lot of the defense agencies. They didn't want to make displays, but they wanted to license it worldwide. [Laugh] I certainly didn't know anything about licensing of patents [and I did not intend, at that time, to start a company to make products. I just said, "Oh, I was an amateur radio operator and was impressed by all these electronics." I'm glad to hear it. Were they asking the LCI to solve problems for them?DOANE: [They primarily wanted just to be current with the technology as it applied to their companys interest. I knew I needed somebody in optics. I thought I would try that. Then, there's also the question of whether the research was done on campus, licensing, and so forth. Why did you decide to retire?DOANE: Several reasons. Also, the US. But the professors themselves often are the ones [who often want to keep hold of that technology. These students went into industry in places like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. Then, I would say another event that directed my life and that of my wife was, after I'd written my dissertation, I had an oral presentation to give at the American Physical Society on my dissertation work. He did a beautiful job, and made me a nice compound. India, Russia, Japan, all over the place. I knew nothing about marketing or sales, and I didn't view myself as somebody to run the company. It usually involves lectures and breakout sessions. We got the company started, and the company got off to a very quick start. CRAWFORD: We left off at our last discussion talking about the end of your career at the Liquid Crystal Institute with your retirement in 1996, at which point you moved to working full-time with Kent Displays, Incorporated. Fergason got interested in display development. They focused on one type of liquid crystal display, LCD, referred to as a twist cell. I really appreciate you sharing your reflections.DOANE: Thank you very much. Now, we can get back to Fergason before I became associate director. Actually you could use and switch any color. And because he was very interested in applications, I believe he was [more entrepreneurially oriented]. These grants with our own funds helped us build this high-volume manufacturing line so that we could really turn out displays in high volume. Various institute investigators including students and postdocs give lectures, and people ask questions. An ex-CEO of the Hoover vacuum cleaner company, Joe Cutinella, was on the Kent State University Board of Trustees at that time, and I think his influence really helped, particularly in getting the University to accept this idea of starting local companies. That was very attractive to them, too. I just thought engineering was the place to be for what I seemed to like. It did play a huge role. Also, Kent had just started its PhD program in solid-state physics, and I just wanted it to grow from solid-state physics to physics in general, which it did. The liquid crystal display is a major part of it. It's just recognition that somebody saw what you were doing. Today he is CEO taking the company into new exciting directions with new products. It came about when a postdoctoral fellow in my laboratory was experimenting on how cholesteric liquid crystals respond to an electrical pulse. Some were even teaching classes. It was really good for both chemistry and physics departments and their graduate programs because it funded graduate students and their dissertation research. [Start Part 1]MATTHEW CRAWFORD: My name is Matthew Crawford. There was Dave Johnson in the physics department, who was doing very nice work on calorimetry, the thermodynamics of liquid crystals. That is a major benefit because small companies, particularly, cannot afford the very expensive research equipment that universities have for their research. Also, it involved radio frequencies, something I was really familiar with. Then, I saw that maybe this was an opportunity for a university to get involved in display research. Is that a fair characterization? Win over prospective landlords with your smart budgeting. Together, we went to many US and foreign companies and found ourselves negotiating license agreements. The primary reason I did was Jim McGrath and Tony Silvidi. How do they function on a molecular level?" But my wife was very good at handling things by herself. The relationship and collaboration between industry and Kent State University during Doanes directorship was important to the growth of the LCI. Thank you! I thought it probably was the best thing to do because I didn't see anything going anywhere. "DOANE: Jim Fergason was not involved in THEMIS research. They knew how to do that very well. I wanted to stay here. CRAWFORD: Was there a sense at that time in the late 60s and the 70s, was there a sense that academic science was a different world than industrial science?DOANE: Yes. I guess towards the late 80s, these programs became available. The liquid crystal display technology during that period began to take off. CRAWFORD: I'm thinking of somebody like the current CEO, Asad Khan, who did his dissertation at the LCI while he was working full-time at Kent Displays.DOANE: We've had a lot of students here from Kent State in addition to Asad as well as students from other local universities. In the early 80s, Glenn gave me the title of associate director. That's perfect. Nely F May 8, 2012. I walked down the hall, looking in doors, seeing what this physics department looked like. More so then than now.CRAWFORD: What was the nature of that difference?DOANE: [Back when Glenn first formed the institute this gap was larger than today in that universities didnt see it as their business to perform research of industrial interest. I'm interested in what he says about the role of the institute. There were also new types of liquid crystal display technologies created that were commercialized. New York Nails. The attractive thing for a sign is that once you address it, it takes no power to retain the message. They were further instrumental in involving other industries such as 3M.] 2 hours from Kansas City. That $8 million would've been a lot better spent going to developing products and marketing. We decided at one time to try Amazon, and we sent them a number of them. Disease has always been the biggest killer. There were all sorts of projects going on. It was so secret, I never knew what it was, but we were given the contract to develop the display for it. She was fluent in German and Spanish. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: Why did it seem so important or crucial to do this grant?DOANE: I thought it was marvelous. With that, I got the institute into a program with the University of Southern California. I thought, "I'm going to see if I can get the administration to let me use this program in the Institute." Was that something you sought out?DOANE: At that time, I was looking at other things, actually. As I understand Phil, this display technology you're looking at right there on your cell phone is from one of our students.CRAWFORD: For the audio, you're showing me an Apple iPhone. I didn't find it a great business for Kent State University. There was actually talk of just eliminating the program with various faculty continuing to do their own thing with liquid crystals.CRAWFORD: The Institute?DOANE: Yeah. I didn't know of anybody else at Kent who had done this sort of thing, spinning off technology from the University. Saupe wasn't focused on that at the time although he did later contribute in that area. NOTE TO USERS: Sharp Copy Transcription, an independent transcription service, produced the original version of this transcript from the digital audio files of this oral history interview. The viewing angle was a big issue on displays. I was supportive of the applications. At the time, academic research was seen as sort of enabling a freedom to researchers. I was in artillery school at Fort Sill Oklahoma. you lucky dog. That was a very nice program. Liquid Crystal Oral History: Doane, J. William (Transcript Only),. A successful company generates royalties for the university They build upon each other.] Then, lawsuits began to fly all over the place. It just seemed like a good thing for the physics department and university as well as I could see interest from the faculty and university for doing this. I think the University gave him a lot of support to start this program. I thought it would've been a marvelous thing for the city of Kent and for Kent State University and even the country to have really capitalized upon this opportunity. It was a very fun time, actually. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: How does the surface of the Boogie Board record the writing? I don't know how it is these days, but back in those days, if you were going to have a graduate program, the faculty had to bring in the money to do it. [I have no idea how much endowment MIT and Stanford get from the local economy, but they both have huge, profitable high tech industries with many faithful alums.] I think there may be exceptions, but I think those are unusual situations, where a university makes a bundle of money from licensing. I always wanted to go to college because my mom really encouraged that. The University had no program for licensing. Both of us saw it as a challenge, and I was willing to try to take it on as a dissertation, and he was pleased with that because we thought it would be fun to do. I dont know what he called his company, but I think he made good business out of that. CRAWFORD: Do you have a sense of why that was?DOANE: I don't know. And that's what I formed KDI on. Kent State wasn't widely known for anything at that time. It was difficult, but I finally got it through. At that particular time, my research was focused on nuclear magnetic resonance of liquid crystals. I talked to Heinke once about this. I got invited to chair a physics department at a university in Michigan. Book your hotel room at the best price. Professor Saupe became more involved [with the departmental faculty at that point too, as did Adriaan De Vries because they got support from THEMIS].Around '74 or so, after about four or five years of the THEMIS grant, the Air Force decided they didn't want to fund basic research anymore and the National Science Foundation, NSF, decided to take it over. I had a lot of trouble doing it because chemistry viewed it as an encroachment. He had moved on by then and wanted to develop and ultimately sell liquid crystal displays for watches. Below is a list of activities and point of interest in Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin and its surroundings. In other words, it was sort of outside of the realm of the University, not as closely controlled.DOANE: But it was really part of the University because Fergason's salary came through the University, so did Alfred Saupes. But today at least, you cannot easily separate the two interests because industries are very interested in what universities are coming up with and vice versa. It was a huge group. And the governor came. I began to see the need for the company to be able to develop and manufacture displays for other uses instead of just for signs. Universities, by nature, like to be open and publish their research.] Further, patents have a limited lifetime.] I wanted to learn Morse code, and I needed to make a little oscillator that would make tones and got a [telegraph] key, so I could [practice and] learn Morse code. Chemistry was really opposed to it because they saw these courses encroaching on their courses. Why did you decide to pursue a patent on these things?DOANE: I could see that they had value. Being at a small grade school, I really was not exposed to that much science. And there's this kind of story that until Dr. Brown's review essay in 1957, there wasn't that much going on with it.DOANE: No, there wasn't. As soon as Timex found out about this deal with Hoffmann-La Roche, they, of course, were upset. We will schedule showings by appointment only until the tenant has moved. I think that was the difficulty. If you look at early articles in the Kent Stater, the campus newspaper, there's a lot of discussionDOANE: He loved that concept. The funding for Kent Displays was strictly Bill Manning.CRAWFORD: And then, you mentioned getting some defense contracts. Then, in RCA, there was a group. I could have a display film that was flexible, the liquid crystal wouldn't flow out of it, it was trapped inside of it. Because that was something they could really do, what's called a seven-segment display. I think this is the only example I know of where this has happened, where two different countries have a different patent ownership. Heinke was the attorney involved in this lawsuit. I asked my advisor who these guys were, and he said, "They worked with Professor Purcell up at Harvard. She was wanting to start a family, and we thought we could do that, even while I was in graduate school. I had such good support from industry and Kent State administration. They gave it to me to put in the Institute so we could make displays in the Institute. CRAWFORD: I'm wondering about the relationship between Kent Displays and the Liquid Crystal [Institute]. From that review paper, he learned a lot about who was doing what and where, so he organized the first International Liquid Crystal Conference.CRAWFORD: I just wanted to ask you quickly, I know you weren't involved in liquid crystals at this time, but now having had a career in liquid crystals and having met lots of people, part of the sort of historical narrative about liquid crystals, from what I understand at this point, is that they were discovered in the late 19th century, 1888 or thereabouts. As far as the material he was talking about, he was perhaps right. I didn't think we had a chance in hell of getting this thing because it was thrown together so fast. I was taking this physics course, and one day, while in the physics laboratory I wanted to take a break from what I was doing. I wouldn't say, though, that it was one of the reasons I signed on at Kent. Ive been told that China likes them in train stations and various public places.CRAWFORD: Same thing with the Boogie Board, right? Its been over 25 years since I retired from the university and a lot has happened since then.] That may have caught their attention. And that really helped me because then, I had a unique display technology that we could propose to them to develop. There were a lot of them to populate those places. CRAWFORD: Looking back on your career in science, we can see, just from this conversation, that being a scientist involves much more than just working at a lab bench or working with NMR technologies. At one time, I thought maybe I could somehow get him involved in the graduate program or something, but he didn't want to do that. Do you have any sense of what was driving that change or what has driven the change from this vision Brown expressed?DOANE: I'm not sure it was actually ever really feasible. Last month, the real estate company QIC was going to buy Forest City's stake in the Town Center Mall. It was a nice program. That's another big story. It stands for Advanced Liquid Crystal Optical Materials. He often spoke about that, living systems. CRAWFORD: If I understood you correctly, a spin-off company doesn't necessarily mean more financial benefit for a university than licensing does. This would give the University the opportunity to license it off to other companies for other kinds of display applications besides signs. And in the meantime, I'd talked with others who may have wanted to invest in it, some people up in Cleveland who thought they might do it. We started a project studying these materials with electric field pulses. There is one here at Kent Displays that is used to welcome people.CRAWFORD: I've seen that. The Japanese could do this. One of the first things I did when I got back was to go to people like Dave Johnson in physics, Wilbur Franklin, Dave Uhrich, Edward Gelerenter and others. But that was a distraction for the company. It was an industry-run program. CRAWFORD: When was the graduate program established?DOANE: After the establishment of ALCOM. Copyright 2023 eRealEstate Holdings, LLC. You mentioned GM and Tektronix. It's just kind of in my nature. [Laugh] But I was able to do it. I wanted to get the Institute to an area where we could fund it, and the only way I could see funding at that time was to get some applied activity going on. Listing Provided Courtesy of Even Fergason's work was not military-oriented. Anyway, the suit was settled out of court. Jim had a contract with the Gruen Watch Company to make these things. [Laugh] They wanted to fill a position at Kent, and I was looking at other schools, too. I thought it was a way to help graduate research.CRAWFORD: When you said you wanted to tie the faculty together, it's really thinking in terms of building the University, building the graduate program. He made slide rules and sold them. But we were able to get Saupe here. But I'm still on the board of the company, and they kindly give me a little office here, let me come in and talk to people. It's been very helpful. There were three other universities involved. If you're going to have a graduate program, you have to have faculty who can bring in money, at least in sciences. It has a separate dinning room and living room and an partially finished basement with laundry hookups. It really was a part of the University, yet set apart from the university research campus. Where do you think that may be one of the Institute so we do. But he did like the concept of working with liquid crystals a grade! 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